toward men. Bill responds, and Rasa teaches him a couple things.
Thanks Bill...Oddly or not so, it is men who have primarily answered my
query, and the women who have done so have given me one-liners. It looks
like I will not be able to produce a chapter on 'Why and How Women Hate Men
Across the Board Including Between the Sheets.'
Your answers are in some ways quite good, in others, totally naiive. They
make me want tolaugh because it seems to me, you have not the slightest idea
why women are in the state they are in. You need to do some deep study but
this is not readily available except on my site, in our forthcoming books,
and William Bond, Ashley Montagu writings.
Women are not where they are at by choice, they have put there by thousands
of years of brutality. You are asking a slave in the Old South,
'Pull yourself together and stand up to them. You hold the key to labor, the
wealth of the Plantation Owner. Why don't you get some confidence and
understand it is you who is giving them their wealth and simply stand tall?'
Laugh X 100. It is institutianalized discrimination, and a culture that has
systematically deprived women of all human rights, including economic
freedom and freedom of speech (which includes freedom of behavior and
choices.) Women's bodies are under siege, they are prisoners of war.
Patriarchy is now falling apart, unravelling, and since the Industrial
Revolution things are changing rapidly. But we are not home yet, it is just
starting, albeit starting with a vengeance.
Your answers are telling in that I see how the intelligent grass roots man
can have no inling of why women are (maddeningly to be sure) the way they
are. Why are they so indecisive and talk endlessly about issues and do
nothing? (I will attest to that...have been in groups where they do this and
I was the only one willing to go into action.) Why are they so cowardly,
timid, fearful, passive and lazy about the war against oppression? There are
a mission reasons and it mostly comes down to fear. Fear of ridicule, fear
of becoming pariahs, fear of losing economic support, fear of losing support
from family and friends, fear of being marginalized and called names like
wierdo, man hater, dyke, etc. These are the fears in a civilized place like
the United States. In oppressive countries where they have Patriarchy
entrenched the fear is of being brutalized and even murdered with impunity.
I saw a report where a doctor in a Latin country shot his wife dead for
going to college, and he was not punished. Women who attempt to leave harems
in Muslim countries have their heads chopped off. Foreign women working in
Muslim theocracies have been scourged till they bled for LAUGHING and
supposedly showing ANKLES in a MacDonald's!
Here in redneck Littletown, USA, I am called all the names aforementioned
and more, because I stand up to our society. I have few friends in town and
many hypocrites revile me. These are child molesters, secret drug dealers,
adulterers, bestiality freaks, killers of women (two miles from my house a
man shot a woman during deer season, hung her upside down and deboweled her
as you would a deer) and their own mothers (I knew a man who killed his own
Mom with a baseball bat) and the like, and yet, because I STAND UP FOR MY
RIGHTS I am maligned more than anyone around!; I am spoken of with more
ridicule and malice than are the miscreants mentioned. The man who killed
his Mom was talked about for weeks and everyone forgot him. Myself, I am
talked about every day wherever I go, and my reputation precedes me wherever
I appear, and I am not welcome. This is the price I pay for SPEAKING OUT AND
ACTING AS A FREE AND CONFIDENT WOMAN. Othr women choose not to pay the price
I have, it hurts too much.
That is why the women's movement is not moving any faster than it is. It is
moving fast, but it could accelerate by many times if females would be
willing to take more risks, suffer more for the cause, and absorb the kind
of pain that leaders have to.
I hope I have taught you something, Bill.
Rasa Von Werder
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for your query. I have read it and here are my considered
responses.
1) I'm not enamored by male extremists. Men tend to be problem solvers. They
see a problem and search for an answer. Women tend to want to discuss an
issue ceaselessly until they discover what might be the cause. Men think
they know the cause and want to fix it. Women, many times, seem to live for
the issue and not want the fix. Without the fix you can't go on and many
women are afraid to go forward.
What is really desired is good leaders, male or female, that realize there
can not be any progress without solutions and that many times there are no
perfect solutions. Comprise, which I like to avoid because two bad solutions
do not make a good solution, is inevitable and necessary if we are to move
on. I hate few people but those I hate I hate deeply and completely. Most of
them are men and a few of them are women.
2) I would have to agree that bravado for bravados sake makes no sense to
me. If you are not adult enough to accept that your position is wrong and
held without good reasoning then you are a fool. I see men and women do this
at an alarming rate and it amazes me. Men who actually believe that they, by
virtue of their gender, are somehow smarter and are somehow exempt from
reasoning are fools and are to be avoided. Women who actually believe that,
by virtue of their gender, are somehow more in touch with their feeling and
are exempt from reasoning are fools also and are to be avoided.
Women and men are meant to complement each other. I enjoy watching strong
women who are completely in touch with their selves, familiar with their
strengths and weaknesses, handle situations with deft and finesse. It is a
thing of beauty to witness and I have spent my entire life trying, with
mixed results, to teach women how this is done
3) The most annoying and hateful thing a man or woman can do on a date is
take the other for granted and assume that they can use and abuse the
person. You have to treat each other with dignity and respect.
Men, many times, think that all women are whores and it's just a mater of
price negotiation. Women, many times, think that this guy is to be used for
a good time and whatever you can get from him.
Women hold the key to the castle, that holiest of all holies, the heaven
that lies between their thighs, and if they don't know it I don't know why,
and it is an incredible responsibility. Unfortunately women, in general,
have debased their selves and given up the keys and are now scorned by many
men. Women need to take back control but they don't know how and it so
simple, it just requires discipline but most don't have it.
4) Don't know, I'm not a woman but I have had many women go through my house
when I'm not around trying to learn as much, I assume, about me as they can.
That's annoying as all hell.
5) I have witnessed and watch everyday as people, men and women, be rude to
each other in conversation. When I happen to be in one of those
conversations I vacate it. I won't tolerate rude behavior and I can't
believe that others do. It is my opinion that if we all followed my lead
then those who practice rude behavior would eventually find their selves
alone, as it should be; alas most people lack the personal discipline to do
it.
6) I have no ex boy friends or husbands but I could talk forever about
habits my former spouse and a couple of girlfriends have had. Suffice to say
that when I can't over come a bad habit that someone else has I exit from
that relationship, after all, a fool convinced against them selves makes no
sense.
7) I hate to break the bad news to you but sometimes battle is necessary. If
someone wants to hurt you must battle at some time. It can not be put off
forever. What I have difficulty with is when someone thinks that the only
solution, in ever case, is battle or their opposites, those that think the
only salvation, in every case, is cooperation and comprise. In the real
world neither of those strategies is of any real value.
8) Lets face it, when men deprecate women, or vice versa, it's not good. It
demonstrates a lack of self esteem. It is better to be thought a fool than
to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
9) Men are not inferior. Women are not inferior. People are people and that
is all we can be. None of us has a choice as to our gender but we still have
a duty and obligation to treat each other with dignity and respect. I do not
waste time or words on what makes us different but rather how we can best
compliment each other. To do anything else is to dwell on the negative and
that can only lead to more criticism and more pain. I'm not in favor of
pain; I'm in favor of pleasure.
10) I know dominate men and women and they all suffer from the belief that
they are somehow inadequate in some way or another. I don't feel sorry for
them but I do try, with moderate success at times, to get them to see their
selves as others do. Hopefully it will bring peace in their lives but it is
up to them to change. I can do nothing for them. Life is a do it to yourself
proposition.
11) Me, I think it's disgusting that men and women have sex with animals but
that's just me. Folks that engage in that kind of behavior are about as
kinky as you can get. The next groups, in my mind, are sadists and
masochists. Both these types lack self esteem to the highest degree. Think
about it, when you feel that you are so worthless that you should be
mistreated or you feel that you are not appreciated enough that you must
mistreat others you're probably a sick puppy. Having said that, I believe,
that what ever two or more consenting adults do in privacy is their own
business and I guess that acting out your problems can be considered a form
of therapy. That works for me.
12) Women control the pussy, period! (Except in the course of rape)
Therefore a woman not pleased in bed has her own self to thank.
Now that may sound harsh and I guess it is but think about this, why in God's
name would a woman have sex, make love, whatever you want to call it, when
she doesn't get some enjoyment out of it? If she is too timid, ashamed,
fearful, hung up, not ally sophisticated, whatever then why in hell is she
have sex with this person? She had a say into whether or not they were going
to do it so why did she not exercise her choice, ensure that the guy
proceeded in a fashion to her suiting, treat her gently and lovingly so that
she could be receptive to the moment, and achieve satisfaction from event?
The guy is only half of the equation. He can't get to the pussy unless she
allows it and if she allows it she should be ready.
13) I have NO tolerance for rapists and child molesters. It is my opinion
that they must be eliminated from society, period! And I don't mean placed
in prison to be a burden to society the rest of their lives. These people
can NOT be rehabilitated and therefore must be eliminated.
14) The Catholic church of today is not the Catholic church of yesterday. It
is getting better but still has a long way to go. I have one idea why that
church has against women priests but I do know whatever the reason is it is
not a good one. Many religions, Islam comes to mind, treat women poorly. I
have no need of those belief systems and it hurts my heart that in this day
and age that the only way the men that run those organizations can make
their selves fell good is but making others feel bad. They are truly twisted
individuals. May God have mercy on their souls.
15) You need to refer back to my answer to question 11. I realize that this
is a big world and a lot of folks don't see things the way I do but if
people want to engage in this behavior and they consent to it, it is not
done under duress, then I'm not wasting any of my time worrying about it
although I know it's a little bit twisted.
Yup! Some men use women as breeding objects (check out the mideast
countries) and damned if some women don't allow men to use them as breeding
objects. I don't get it but to each their own. What I don't like is when
that happens and then the participants want you and me, society in general,
to be responsible for the fall out of behavior like that.
16) Women will not stop hating each other enough to unit and overcome the
problems but women do hold the key. Women have to stop being security driven
and become more confident and self reliant, which they can in the west but
it has not spread to the mideast and east yet.
It's a simple equation, men want what women have and men are willing to do
what women want in order to get it. Having said this, women are the
stabilizing force in the universe but they have given up control to be more
like men. Women don't need to be more like men they just need to be more
self reliant so that they can make better choices.
Well I certainly hope the answers I have provided to your questions are of
value. I look forward to continuing our conversation in the future.
Pleasureabill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To Dr. Gale Glaebach,
I was just studying the book of Professor Bryan Sykes of Oxford - a leading
geneticist. His book, 'Adam's Curse', is a course on genetics and male
female relationships. In it is a section I will also feature in the book
where he discusses the beginning of Patriarchy at the time when agriculture
was instituted, between 8 1/2 to 7 1/2 thousand years ago. He said that
babies were breastfed for years, and she could not OVULATE while feeding (I
never thought of that!) and therefore could not become pregnant until her
baby could WALK PROPERLY, following her in their hunting/gathering...years
would transpire between each baby, the children getting that healthy dose of
mother love/intimacy, until they could follow the tribe on their feet. He
said that when agriculture was instituted, the males wanted to keep the
women continually pregnant, and weaning was instituted prematurely. This
caused trauma to the children, as well as women became like domesticated
animals, in that they were now 'serially pregnant', the children traumatized
by weaning and the women enslaved by constant pregnancy. He said that the
ownership of agriculture, then land, the property/wealth/greed turned men
into out-of-control Patriarchs who wanted to endless repetition of their y
chromosome at the expense of all else. He said thee are studies that our
world's depression can often be traced back to the weaning, which deprives
the child of the strength it must gather at the mother's breast. I just
about jumped when I heard this (on cd) and was so grateful for his saying
it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Dr. Glaebach,
Man's herding of animals gave him the specialized tools of control that were
then utilized against women for the reasons Sykes suggests. When man began
controlling plants and animals with the advent of agriculture, women were
next in line. The deep reason is a principle of evolutionary psychology:
"Paternal Uncertainty". Women always know the baby is there's; but men can
never be sure. When property disposition became important and wealth began
to amass with the advent of agriculture (contrary to with nomadic people
where all property is a burden they must carry wherever they go); it then
became obsessively important for men to make sure they get a "virgin" so the
baby has to be theirs. The virgin obsession, the learning of control
techniques from herding, and the very useful "tool" that is "patriarchal
religion" with the "Father God of sexual guilt"; all conspired to deprive
women of their basic human rights.
Dale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mothergod/
Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:01 am
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