– THE PRICE IS ‘ALL OF ME, WHY NOT TAKE ALL OF ME’
A BUMP IN THE ROAD.>
> (1) Tova, we had a bump in
> the road a few days ago. I will start my interview with
> that. Can you explain to me why you got so upset when you
> perceived I had 'changed,' that my vibes were
> different? I still loved you the same, but my outer self
> was in a slightly different 'zone.' You were
> extremely sensitive to this. Please explain your feelings
> & reaction, in that no matter what I said, you BELIEVE
I had 'withdrawn' my love from you to some degree.
YOU DID NOT LOVE ME LIKE BEFORE, I COULD FEEL IT. MATERNAL LOVE WAS NO WHERE NEAR THAT DAY. I CAN NOT HANDLE CHANGES IN SOMEONES PERSONALITY VERY WELL AT ALL BECAUSE MY MOTHER IS BIPOLAR, SO THERE WAS A NEW PERSONA WITH HER EVERY FEW MINUTES. SHE WAS UNSAFE, THEREFORE THAT MAKES ANYONE ELSE WITH SHIFTS IN PERSONALITY UNSAFE TO ME.
OUTWARD DISPLAY OF AFFECTION BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM ME IS REJECTION IN MY BOOK. ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE KNOWN SOMEONE FOR A LONG TIME CAN YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THEM NOT SHOWING AS MUCH LOVE OR AFFECTION BECAUSE THEY HAVE GIVEN IT TO YOU FOR YEARS ALREADY AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAS PREVIOUSLY FOLLOWED IS GENUINE AND TRUE, NEVER TO FALTER.
WITHDRAWING YOUR EMOTIONS SO QUICKLY IS WITHDRAWING YOUR WHOLE SELF FROM ME. THAT IS HOW I PERCEIVE IT. THAT YOUR INTENTIONS WERE SHORT LIVED AND YOU GOT TIRED OF IT SO YOU QUIT. THE GAME YOU WERE PLAYING WITH ME WAS FINISHED.>
> (2) Is most of what happens Post Traumatic Stress
> Anxiety, working through this? Finding a Source of Love who
> will alleviate this sense of not being loved, holding you
> strongly in the point of love until you believe, until you
> have the confidence that it will not go away?
YES, MOST OF WHAT IT IS IS POST TRAUMATIC STRESS. I HAVE NOT SUFFERED FOR THE PAST FEW MONTHS BEFORE MEETING YOU. I SUFFERED NO LONGING FOR AFFECTION OF CONNECTEDNESS. I WAS FINE, SO I THOUGHT, OR MAYBE I WAS. I WAS NOT IN THAT STATE LONG ENOUGH TO GET A FULL REPORT ON EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON BEFORE I MET YOU. I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR A MOTHER OR A SOURCE OF LOVE WHATSOEVER. POST TRAUMATIC STRESS ONLY STARTS IN THE BEGINNING OF A NEW RELATIONSHIP. I SUFFER CONSTANTLY IF I CAN NOT HAVE CONTACT SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. I SHAKE CONSTANTLY, AS I AM NOW, AND ALL DAY WHEN I THINK OF YOU. MY BOWELS MOVE OFTEN AS A RESULT OF NERVOUSNESS. I ONLY HAVE THAT STRESS AND FEAR IF I DO NOT FEEL CONSTANTLY CONNECTED TO THE PERSON (YOU) WITHIN MYSELF. I HAVE TO BE HELD 'STRONGLY' AS YOU PUT IT UNTIL THE FEAR AND STRESS SUBSIDES AND IF I AM NOT THEN I AM IN A CONSTANT STATE OF FEAR AND ANXIETY
> (3) I need to understand what does hunger for
> love mean to you? This true Mother Love that you want from
> me, which I am giving to the best of my ability, does it
> nourish your heart, soul, and mind? How does it mean to be
> nourished, the feeling of it, the sense of it? How can you
> equate/compare this to the need of an infant for Mother
> love, the need of the toddler, the need of the small child?
I NEED YOU WHEN I NEED YOU AND I CAN'T HELP IT WHEN I NEED YOU BUT I DO AND I HAVE TO HAVE YOU TO FEEL SECURE. WHEN I CAN NOT HAVE YOU I BECOME INSECURE AND BEGIN TO WITHDRAW BECAUSE IF I AM REPEATEDLY IGNORED OR REJECTED NO MATTER HOW SLIGHT I BEGIN TO REALIZE THAT I AM NOT WANTED IN THE GREAT WAY IN WHICH I DESIRE. YOUR PRESENSE BEFORE KEPT ME FED. BUT ONCE THAT WAS WITHDRAWN AFTER SUCH A SHORT TIME I AM NOT NOURISHED AND BEGIN TO STARVE, WHICH IS WHAT I AM RIGHT NOW, TO THE POINT OF ANOREXIA. YOU NOW TELL ME WITH YOUR WORDS HOW MUCH YOU LOVE ME, BUT YOUR PRESENSE IS NOT THERE SO IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. THOSE WORDS ARE NOT TIED TO ANYTHING AT ALL. BECAUSE I HAVE LOST YOU. I CAN NOT RECEIVE YOUR WORDS OF LOVE AND REASURANCE BECAUSE YOUR PRESENSE IS NOT THERE TO SHOW ME IN THE FIRST PLACE HOW MUCH YOU LOVE ME ETC
> (4) Tell me what happens when a person with this
> disorder does not seek or find a remedy? What would be the
> result? What happens to them? Their mind, heart, their
> psyche, even their body?
YOU FIND PEOPLE ALONG THE WAY TO ALLEVIATE THE EMPTINESS FOR A SHORT TIME, BUT IT NEVER LASTS. PEOPLE MOVE ON, THEY, AND I MAY MOVE ON. YOU LIVE YEAR AFTER YEAR WITH CONSTANT EMPTINESS THAT TAKES OVER EVERY PART OF YOUR BEING UNTIL YOU WANT TO DIE IF YOU CAN NOT BE HELD AND COMFORTED AND CONNECTED TO ANOTHER HUMAN MOTHER FIGURE.
AFTER SO LONG OF NOT RECEIVING WHAT YOU NEED, YOUR INNER CHILD SHUTS DOWN. GIVES UP, DOESN'T TRY ANYMORE BECAUSE IF SHE DOES SHE IS ONLY DOOMED TO DISTRUCTION. YOU BECOME NUMB, YOUR EMOTIONS DIE ALONG WITH YOUR INNER CHILD. NO MATTER HOW HARD TO STURGGLE TO BE REAL YOU CAN'T, WHEN YOUR CHILD GOES INSIDE SO DOES ALL THE REST OF THE MOST EXPRESSIVE PARTS OF YOURSELF.
A DEEP SADNESS LINGERS ALL DAY AND NIGHT UTNIL YOU FEAR THAT IT WILL OVERTAKE YOU. 'SHE' IS INSIDE AND YOU CAN'T BRING HER OUT NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE SHE HAS GIVEN UP. SO YOU GIVE UP TOO. THERE IS NO USE. WAKING UP TO FIGHT THE TOTAL BODY/MIND SADNESS IS DAUNTING. YOU CAN'T GET ANYTHING ACCOMPLISHED BECAUSE NOTHING EVER SEEMS RIGHT. YOU'RE JUST A SHELL SO WHY TRY.
> (5) When you realized the next day that all was
> fine, I did not withdraw, then what was the feeling you
> had? The nightmare was gone?
NO, THE NIGHTMARE WAS NOT GONE, BUT I WAS MUCH MORE CALM. THE NIGHTMARE WAS JUST BEGINNING. ONE STRING BROKE, FOLLOWED BY MANY TO COME.
Will you be better able to
> deal with my different vibes at different times now?
I CAN NOT SAY THAT I WILL. THE DEEP SEATED, CELLULAR MEMORY, I HAVE OF MY MOTHERS BIPOLAR DISORDER AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT WILL ALWAYS BE WITH ME I AM AFRAID.
As it is normal for people to feel differently at various times,
> indeed, necessary for survival. No one can be the same
> under all occasions, their personality must measure up to
> the needs at hand.
FEEL DIFFERENTLY YES, BUT NEVER TOWARDS YOUR OWN CHILD UNLESS THEY HAVE CAUSED YOU TO FROM SOME ACTIONS ON THEIR PART.
> (6) Explain again from your experience how boys
> react differently to attachment disorder, how they behave
> when they are deprived of Mother Love. When they grow up
> how are they different than a female all things being
BOYS BECOME VIOLENT TOWARDS OTHERS AS THEY ARE TAUGHT BY THE OUTSIDE WORLD TO SHOW FEELINGS OF HURT IN A MACHO WAY, AND THE MOST ACCEPTABLE WAY IS TO OUTWARD VIOLENCE. GIRLS TURN INWARD AS IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR THEM TO BE AGRESSIVE. GIRLS MAY BECOME VERY VIOLENT AND SELF DESTRUCTIVE TOWARD THEIR BODIES, THRU VARIOUS FORMS OF TORTURE AND SELF HARM.
RASA TO TOVA:
aha I see that by reading this, what you need is beyond what I can give. The fact is I have other emotional ties. Your need is all consuming. I did not play a game, by no means, I do love you, but what you need is way beyond what I Am prepared to give.
You want an on-call Mother, hands on style, not only to be able to access me all day - something I have not permitted anyone to do - but for us to become physically connected by visits and even moving there.
What started out as affection has become all consuming. Affection is not enough, you must have access to my body - that is extremely difficult if not impossible at this point.
I had no idea how much you would need – did not. I had no idea how much it would take out of my life & mental focus. No way can i be the ‘total mamma’ to you at this point, only a ‘partial mamma’ if that is enough. To put it in the simplest terms,
‘i had no idea what i was getting into.’
For anyone who wants to now undertake being a mother to an adult child, what tova is describing, is what you will get.
Be on call from the time you get up to the time you go to bed, your life is not your own any more. The child will control you, basically tell you what she or he needs, and it is all of you!
It’s kind of like having a husband or a wife, is it not? But you do not get any benefits that a spouse gives, you are the giver with not much in return except constant demand for more.
No matter how much you like, love, care about the person, the price is all of you! Too much for my blood, my friends, if you can do it, good luck!
SCARY LETTER FROM TOVA BECAUSE I AM NOT GIVING HER CONSTANT ATTENTION, ONLY A COUPLE E MAILS A DAY IN THE LAST 2 DAYS – BECAUSE I AM SO DRAINED I CANNOT TALK TO HER:
I TRIED TO TELL YOU HOW EASY IT IS FOR ME TO BECOME DISCONNECTED FROM SOMEONE. UNATTACHED. I HAVE TOLD YOU, IN WRITING, BUT MAYBE YOU DID NOT REALIZE. I THINK IT IS ALMOST OVER. MY DETACHMENT FROM YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS PAST THIS POINT. IF I CAN BECOME ATTACHED AGAIN. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE, SO WHO KNOWS. I AM LITERALLY HAVING CHEST PAINS. MY HEART RATE IS 120. I AM SO SAD I FEEL LIKE I AM GOING TO DIE. I HURT MYSELF, BUT THAT DIDN'T MAKE ME FEEL TOO TOO MUCH BETTER. DAYS WITH OUT SPOKEN WORD ARE ENOUGH FOR ME TO BECOME TOTALLY UNATTACHED. IT IS PAST HURT. PAST SOMETHING I HAVE CONTROL OVER AT THIS POINT. I CAN NOT GO ON THIS WAY, I AM SO SAD I FEEL LIKE I AM GOING TO DIE. I MUST FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH MY PAIN. IF I DO NOT ANSWER MY EMAILS FOR A WEEK, THEN MY COMPUTER IS OFF. AND SO MY PHONE WILL MOST LIKELY BE AS WELL. IF I GO ANY FARTHER DOWN I MAY NOT COME BACK UP. WHEN I START HAVING VISIONS OF CHOPPING MYSELF UP INTO LITTLE
> PIECES, THAT IS NOT EXACTLY A GOOD SIGN. I TRIED TO REACH OUT. I TRIED TO CALL AND YOU NEVER CALLED BACK. THE DETACHMENT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR DAYS SLOWLY AND WHEN I HAD STRENGTH FOR A MOMENT I WOULD TRY AND REACH OUT AND CALL ONLY FOR NAUGHT. I HAVE NO MORE REACH OUT LEFT IN ME. I THINK STRANGE THOUGHTS LIKE I WISH YOU WOULD BEAT ME VERY HARD WITH SOMETHING, ANYTHING. I WISH THAT YOU WOULD HURT ME PHYSICALLY. AND THEN I MIGHT FEEL BETTER. I WISH YOU WOULD HIT ME UPSIDE MY HEAD AND KNOCK ME DOWN. I DON'T KNOW WHY I THINK THIS WAY, BUT HAVE THOUGHT IT SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS OF MY DETACHMENT. I AM AS RATIONAL AS I CAN BE ABOUT ALL OF THIS, AS SHE IS NO WHERE IN SIGHT. BUT I AM SO SAD THAT I THINK IT MIGHT KILL ME. I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS YET, BUT I MUST FIND OUT QUICKLY. YOUR WORDS OF LOVE ARE MEANINGLESS TO ME, THEY CAME TOO LATE. THEY MAKE ME SO SHAKY AND SAD, LIKE A TEASE. LIKE SOMEONE IS PUTTING A NICE
> PIECE OF RIPE FRUIT IN FRONT OF MY MOUTH AND LETTING ME LICK IT, BUT NOT BITE. I CAN SMELL IT'S SWEETNESS, BUT I CAN NOT TASTE OF IT.
> I HAVE NO REASSURANCE THAT YOU WILL BE THERE, OR WHEN YOU WILL, THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT THERE AT ALL. >
> I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WILL DO. BUT I MUST DO SOMETHING OR I MIGHT DIE.
FROM BABY MAN
DEAR MOTHER RASA,
THAT SURE IS A PROBLEM WITH TOVA.
SITTING HERE NOW DRINKING FROM MY BABY BOTTLE I HAD THE OBVIOUS THOUGHT THAT CHILDREN DO THINK THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND THEM AND THEY DO DEMAND 100% OF THEIR MOTHERS ATTENTION.
IN A WAY TOVA IS REALLY ACTING LIKE AN OLDER CHILD THAT DOESN'T WANT HER MOM TO DATE OR REMARRY. NO MATTER HOW NICE THE GUY IS THE CHILD CAN BE STUBBORN AND HATEFUL.
WHAT TOVA DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN GIVING OF YOURSELF FOR YEARS.
OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GIVE AND GIVE IT IS VERY DRAINING.
THE PROBLEM WITH CYBER RELATIONSHIPS ARE THEY ARE SO POWERFUL AT FIRST BUT CAN COMPLETELY TAPER OFF. THEY ARE REALLY LOPSIDED, WE CONNECT WITH THE PERSONS BRAIN BUT WE REALLY KNOW LITTLE ELSE ABOUT THEM.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THEM YOU REALLY START TO UNDERSTAND HOW LITTLE WE KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER PERSON AND HOW LITTLE WE MIGHT HAVE IN COMMON OR HOW LITTLE THERE IS TO REALLY KEEP US TOGETHER.
THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF ABOUT TOVA IS TO HAVE HER THINK ABOUT HOW HER BABY IS GOING TO DEMAND HER FULL ATTENTION, YET SHE AS A PERSON WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE HER OWN NEEDS AND DESIRES.
From: BABY MAN
To: Rasa Von Werder
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:57 PM
Subject: ATTACHMENT DISORDER IN PROGRESS
WHAT A WONDERFULLY COMPLICATED DISORDER, ATTACHMENT DISORDER, OR A.D. THERE ARE SO MANY WELL WRITTEN ARTICLES ON THE WORST CASE SCENARIOS LEADING TO A.D. THAT THIS WILL TOUCH ON THE MORE BENIGN CASES, OR CAUSES THAT CAN BE EASILY COMMON TO US ALL.
WHEN MOST OF US THINK OF THE DISORDER WE OFTEN THINK OF YOUNG CHILDREN. OFTEN CHILDREN WHO WERE LEFT ALONE IN FOREIGN ORPHANAGES. OFTEN WITH SUCH LITTLE HUMAN CONTACT THAT THEY GROW UP WITH INCOMPLETE BRAIN DEVELOPMENT LEAVING THEM WITH BRAIN DAMAGE AND THE INABILITY FOR NORMAL HUMAN CONTACT AND EMOTIONS.
WE OFTEN THINK OF THE DISORDER AND THE WORSE CASES OF IT. YET WE FORGET ABOUT THOSE WITH A MORE NORMAL UPBRINGING. THOSE WHO WERE NURTURED YET THE NEEDED PARENTAL ATTENTION ENDED WAY TOO EARLY. THUS LEAVING THEM WITH SOME MINOR BUT SO REAL TRAITS AND SYMPTOMS OF ATTACHMENT DISORDER. THE A.D. REMAINING IN SOME PEOPLE EVEN AS THEY ENTER INTO ADULTHOOD.
WE ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT A LOVING PICTURE OF A CONTENTED THREE, FOUR, OR FIVE YOUR OLD CHILD SUCKLING THEIR MOTHERS BREAST TO KNOW THAT PROLONGED MOTHERLY CONTACT IS ALL IMPORTANT.
IT ISN’T JUST THE PARENTS THAT ARE THE CAUSE OF A.D. THERE CAN BE CHILD CONTRIBUTIONS, ENVIRONMENTAL CONTRIBUTIONS, ALONG WITH PARENTAL/ CAREGIVER CONTRIBUTIONS.
WE MIGHT THINK OF HORRIBLY NEGLECTFUL PARENTS THAT CAUSE THE DISORDER IN A CHILD. BUT THERE ARE OFTEN UNAVOIDABLE THINGS THAT CAN COME ABOUT AS A RESULT OF THE UNCERTAINTIES OF LIFE. CONDITIONS THAT CAN’T BE AVOIDED SO THEY LEAD TO SOME LEVEL OF A.D. EVEN IN THE CASES WHERE A CHILD RECEIVES LOTS OF LOVE THE PHYSICAL LOVE AND ATTENTION CAN END WAY TO EARLY LEADING TO PROBLEMS.
THIS MAN SEX GENIUS DESERVES INSPECTION
It seems to me his theories herald the conclusions of Dr. James. W. Prescott – See his book on the Mass Consciousness of Fascism
Wilhelm Reich: Psychoanalyst and Radical Naturalist